Re: Obama - "Let the Jew-burning begin"

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 17:50

And they are sharing it. And if Israel doesn't like the other countries? It has a right to, given that most of the times the other countries invaded them and not the other way around.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 17:52

Well, yeah. But still, bombing the hell out of a nearly defenseless nation is kind of extreme, even if they dislike them

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 17:55

And terrorists attacking the Israelis whenever they want is right?

I'm not saying Israel bombing the hell out of them was right, nor was I addressing the Hamas issue. But honestly? The ratio of civilian deaths compared to terrorist deaths is far less than any other major war. Even though civilians do die, far more terrorists die. And thus less innocent lives are lost in the end.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:06

their rockets rarely hit, and when they hit, they only cause very little damage. And do you seriously believe the israeli death count? I mean, they bombed the hell out of a major city but only killed 100? And what about the chemical strikes?

I'm not against israel retaliating, but not with chemical/ air strikes on a major city, sending in troops would make alot less collateral damage

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 18:12

I'm using the Israeli death count because it's the only official source and saying otherwise would be speculation. And speculation is not professional.

Again, you can speculate about what deaths the chemical strikes caused. It depends on what chemicals they used.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:17

Even if it only caused one death, bombing a city packed tight with civilians using chemicals is morally wrong. And death counts are probably kept as far down as possible. Hell, if they could i bet they'd say no one died.

by Shemuel 2009-05-28, 18:19

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7811386.stm

And they used phosphorus.

by Stryker 2009-05-28, 18:19

just a side note if anyone actually credits the bible as being a credible source, the description of the Israelites in the Old Testament is extremely barbaric. Even for those times. What happened immediately after they were released from slavery... they enslaved a race of their own, and conquered numerous tribes who were already living there.

well as I'm typing this I realize a lot of nations today did the same thing... so i guess i don't have a point to make at all.

Israel should just try to make better relations with all the hostile countries it can.

Darn Israelis using phosphorus... how low can they go.

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 18:20

Thingy wrote:morally wrong

And what is morally wrong? How can you say anything is morally wrong?

by Shemuel 2009-05-28, 18:23

First, you utter the word 'morally'. Then you say 'wrong'.

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 18:25

Without a basis to determine what is and isn't morally right, then there is no right or wrong.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:27

wow, you're really completely brainwashed, arent you?

okay, let's go through this slowly so you can understand

Getting hit by phosphorus: incredibly painful death
Civilian: Person who hasnt partipicated in combat, most likely has no choice but to stay in the city getting bombed
City: Area with alot of civilian habitats and other things needed for civilians to survive. Means there are alot of civilians in the area
Using phosphorus in a tightly packed city: Means alot of civilians will die horrible deaths. It's also unnecessary as they'll get a higher terrorist kill rate and lower civilian death rate with laser guided bombs dropped on buildings with terrorists in them.

Got it?

by Stryker 2009-05-28, 18:28

Shemuel wrote:First, you utter the word 'morally'. Then you say 'wrong'.

THAT is purposeful spam.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:29

no, just robot like devotion to a party.

by bodysurfnj 2009-05-28, 18:35

well I dont mind if the Jews wipe out all the muslims surrounding their country just beacuse Israel is a republic and the muslims dont

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:38

egypt is a republic... and they're israels neighbours. And not all the arabs around them are bad. Though yes, most are...

by bodysurfnj 2009-05-28, 18:43

Thingy wrote:wow, you're really completely brainwashed, arent you?

okay, let's go through this slowly so you can understand

Getting hit by phosphorus: incredibly painful death
Civilian: Person who hasnt partipicated in combat, most likely has no choice but to stay in the city getting bombed
City: Area with alot of civilian habitats and other things needed for civilians to survive. Means there are alot of civilians in the area
Using phosphorus in a tightly packed city: Means alot of civilians will die horrible deaths. It's also unnecessary as they'll get a higher terrorist kill rate and lower civilian death rate with laser guided bombs dropped on buildings with terrorists in them.

Got it?

Thank you Thingy
Nows mes iz real smarts. Smile

Nows me gonna read a books wit a lotz of pictures.

by Philly Homer 2009-05-28, 18:44

Okay, put aside your espousal of all international law and whatnot.

How would one go about forcing a nation into submission? By the most efficient means necessary, with disregard for whoever gets hurt along the way. Chemical warfare does this job well. And you seem to think that terrorists have some sort of fixed headquarters where everybody gathers and is a perfect target for a laser-guided bomb. Sorry to say that nothing of the sort exists. Of course, this only applies while no international law exists.

If I judged this under international law? I would destroy Israel completely. Morally I cannot condone such actions, but what would you know of that?

As to politics - Are you kidding me? I may identify with the Republicans, but mainly because I hate the Democrats. And independents have no power whatsoever.

by Shemuel 2009-05-28, 18:46

To submission?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7545636.stm

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 18:48

The problem is, we're humans. We have morals. We care if someone dies a horrible death or lives. If we were animals, we'd probably be ok with brutally murdering eachother.

And there are good targets for laser guided bombs, like the homes of hamas leaders/ hamas members in high positions

by Shemuel 2009-05-28, 18:52

They have targeted every known member's house, Thingy. Israel's army is probably the best in the world (per person)

by bodysurfnj 2009-05-28, 18:59

US Special Forces could destroy them

by **Thingy** 2009-05-28, 19:07

Meh, the israelis probably have harder training, and they have at least as good equipment as the US i think.

by Stryker 2009-05-28, 19:31

Shemuel wrote:They have targeted every known member's house, Thingy. Israel's army is probably the best in the world (per person)

Meh, the israelis probably have harder training, and they have at least as good equipment as the US i think.

ALL BECAUSE...............
The americans gave them a support with weapons, funds, and technology. The reason they have at least as good equipment as America is not because they are realy good but is because AMERICA GAVE IT TO THEM.

f I judged this under international law? I would destroy Israel completely.

Hip Hip Horay!

by Earthdeath 2009-05-28, 20:58

Take it you don't like Israel much.
And their army isn't the best.What about ours?What about the SAS?
Although they do have the advantage of turban bombs.

by Roger Smith 2009-05-28, 21:39

I think there is definitely a double-standard here. When any news breaks that Israel, and I quote, "may have" used questionable weaponry, there is a huge backlash, but hardly anyone botherse to talk about the atrocities committed on the other side, which are far more frequent and egregious. War is bad, but it's not fought by one side and it's not fought equally by two.

I guess all this talk just stems from peoples' innate anti-semitism.

by bodysurfnj 2009-05-29, 01:25

Israel's army has to be good because if they arent all the countries that hate them would just kick them all the way to the moon

by **Thingy** 2009-05-29, 04:37

Roger Smith wrote:I think there is definitely a double-standard here. When any news breaks that Israel, and I quote, "may have" used questionable weaponry, there is a huge backlash, but hardly anyone botherse to talk about the atrocities committed on the other side, which are far more frequent and egregious. War is bad, but it's not fought by one side and it's not fought equally by two.

I guess all this talk just stems from peoples' innate anti-semitism.

We didnt say anything about no war crimes being commited from the other side. Firing rockets at civilians is an atrocity, and even worse is when it hits a school. I heard the palestinians hit a school in israel but fortunately, the school had been evacuated because of the missile threats. Also, they have been committing war crimes and incredibly low atrocitys at home front (like going into a hospital and shooting all the wounded that they think were spies or belong to the other faction).

But israel has been bombing the hell out of a tightly packed city filled with civilians. And they ''accidently'' bombed a very clearly marked UN hospital. They're the civilized western society here, they have the upper hand. They're not just a faction in some ruined country like hamas and fatah, they have more responsibility.

by bodysurfnj 2009-05-29, 18:57

Really if you think about it there really is now way for either country to defeat unless Israel just happens to use a nuclear missile to kill every one of their enemies. Using rockets and bombs the only thing both sides are attempting to do is to make as many causalities that they can with the amount of explosives that they have.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-29, 19:06

no... that's the idea you get if you dont think about it. at all. The best way is diplomacy and stopping the settlement of the palestinian lands. If they dont pose a threat to their neighbors or wii them off, their neighbors wont have any reason to be a threat to them.

Arabs are humans too you know, i mean, how would you feel if canada suddenly somehow crushed your army and took half your country, would you just shut up and sit or would you fight them? and what would you do if someone kicked your little brother out of his home for no reason? would you shut up and ignore it or try to give him his home back?

by Philly Homer 2009-05-29, 19:12

Thingy wrote:canada suddenly somehow crushed your army and took half your country

Please be realistic.

And if I'm not mistaken, Israel is currently setting aside some of its lands to settle the Palestinians into so the Jews live in one area and the Palestinians live in the other. But the many religious fundamentalists over there are still going to try to erase Israel from the face of the Earth.

That is why diplomacy will not work in this case. If everyone over there are being tools, then you can probably push a 5000kg block of steel more easily than you can reason with the people living there. No, diplomacy doesn't work in this situation because as long as religious extremism exists in that region (which is basically forever,) then there will continue to be fighting.

by **Thingy** 2009-05-29, 19:39

yes, while they're bulldozing palestinian homes, expanding their settlements and making new ones. They're giving the palestinians tiny pieces of land while taking big ones.

And yes, that will be the ''background'' fighting, kind of like background radiation.
It's terrorism, and if they reason with fatah, give them at least some of their land back ( without taking more), and maybe give them a little help rebuilding the place plus partly lifting the blockade (still making sure no guns get in or out), they might get peace.

by Roger Smith 2009-05-29, 20:52

There is no way for anything to be accomplished by war, that's been proven. Diplomacy is the only chance, as no one can really win by fighting. After 50 years, Israel finally actually gave up the Gaza Strip a few years ago, and recent peace talks have focused on splitting Jerusalem and allotting all eastern lands to Palestine. Hopefully the communications don't break down again...

by Shemuel 2009-05-30, 10:50

Which is what is happening now. Netayahnu (or however his name is spelt) Israel's Prime Minister, has refused to continue the One-State policy. The US and him are at loggerheads.

by Earthdeath 2009-05-30, 22:40

Do i smell war?

by Philly Homer 2009-05-30, 22:52

War has been happening in the Middle East for a long time now. For now, it is the most explosive area in the world. It's really only a matter of time until the whole region erupts.

by Earthdeath 2009-05-30, 23:02

I meant full scale warfare, with America blundering in on a conflict that has nothing to do with them, taking all the oil and then leaving.

by Philly Homer 2009-05-30, 23:14

Unfortunately, we couldn't do that. We would be "honor-bound" to clean up. Not to mention it would lower our already abysmal image around the world if we just left with the oil after getting involved in yet another conflict that had nothing to do with us.

by Earthdeath 2009-05-30, 23:24

Yeah, well seeing as though you no longer have to suffer george bush, america probably won't commit.

by Roger Smith 2009-05-31, 00:32

Alkanosis wrote:Unfortunately, we couldn't do that. We would be "honor-bound" to clean up. Not to mention it would lower our already abysmal image around the world if we just left with the oil after getting involved in yet another conflict that had nothing to do with us.

That's true. America hasn't engaged in any modern wars where it has not also taken upon itself the burden to redevelop the area they destroyed, as in Iraq currently, however well they may seem to be doing it. A satirical book on the topic was The Mouse That Roared about a small European principality that declared war on the United States and planned to intentionally lose in order receive aid for their ailing country.

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