Is There One True Religion?

by Darkjedi 2008-03-10, 06:19

The following article is from the March 2008 Awake! Magazine:

Some people find that question offensive. Given the sheer multitude of religious beliefs worldwide, they reason that anyone who claims to have a monopoly on truth must be narrow-minded, even arrogant. Surely, it would seem, some good is to be found in all religions or at least most of them. Is that how you feel?

THERE are, of course, situations in which it is prudent to allow for a variety of opinions. For example, a person might believe that a certain diet will make him healthier. But should he impose that diet on everyone else, as if it were the only way to healthy living? Certainly, it would be wise and modest on his part to allow for the possibility that someone else's choice of food might be as good or even better, at least for that other person.

Is it the same with religion? Are there a variety of acceptable alternatives from which to choose, depending on one's upbringing and way of perceiving things? Or is there one body of religious truth that applies to all mankind? Let us see what the Bible has to say. First, we will consider whether truth is even attainable. After all, if it is not, then there is little point in searching for one true religion.

Is Religious Truth Attainable?

Shortly before he was killed, Jesus Christ told his interrogator, Roman Governor Pontius Pilate: "Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." Pilate may well have been responding cynically when he said: "What is truth?" (John 18:37, 38) Jesus, on the other hand, spoke unashamedly of truth. He did not doubt its existence. Consider, for example, the following four statements that Jesus made to various people.

"For this I have been born and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth." - John 18:37
"I am the way and the truth and the life." -John 14:6
“God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth." -John 4:23, 24.
"If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." - John 8:31, 32

Since Jesus spoke so confidently of truth and of coming to know it, shouldn’t we at least examine the possibility that religious truth exists and that it can be found?

by Darkjedi 2008-03-10, 06:20

Who Should Determine True Religion?

JESUS made it clear that some forms of worship are not acceptable to God. He spoke of “false prophets,” comparing them to a tree that produces worthless fruit and “gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” He also said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens.” --Matthew 7:15-22.

Jesus, in fact, said regarding some who would claim to follow him: “I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:23) Further, when speaking to the religious leaders of his day, Jesus applied to them God’s words to apostate Israel: “It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men.” -Mark 7:6, 7

Clearly, not all worship is approved by God or his Son. Thus, not all worship is true worship. Does this mean that only one religion teaches the truth? Could not God be working through a number of religions, while rejecting certain others? Or, for that matter, might God be accepting and rejecting the worship of individuals scattered about in a number of religions despite what their organizations teach?

The apostle Paul wrote under divine inspiration: “Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.” (1 Corinthians 1:10) the Bible also exhorts Christians to be “of the same mind and have the same love, being joined together in soul, holding the one thought in mind.”-Philippians 2:2
Where such unity exists, the result is, in fact, one religion. Accordingly, the Bible says that there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” -Ephesians 4:4, 5

What the Bible Record Shows

That the above conclusion has solid Scriptural support is clear from the Bible record. By searching this record, you will find that God dealt with his people through one system of worship. Early in mankind’s history, God used patriarchs, or family heads, as his representatives. Prominent among them were Noah, Abram (Abraham), Isaac, and Jacob.-Genesis 8:18-20; 12:1-3; 26:1-4; 28:10-15.

The people who descended from Jacob came to be enslaved in Egypt. While there, they were cruelly oppressed yet grew to number into the millions. God delivered them from captivity, miraculously bringing them through the Red Sea. Then he adopted them as his people, providing them laws by means of the mediator Moses. They became the ancient nation of Israel, God’s nation. -Exodus 14:21-28; 19:1-6; 20:1-17.

Significantly, God did not approve of the forms of worship practiced by people in the nations surrounding Israel. In fact, he punished his people when they deviated from his laws and adopted such forms of worship. -Leviticus 18:21-30; Deuteronomy 18:9-12.

What about individuals from other nations who wanted to worship the true God? They needed first to abandon their former false worship and then join Israel in the worship of Jehovah God. Many of them gained God’s approval and became his loyal servants. These included women, such as Rahab the Canaanite and Ruth the Moabite: men, such as Uriah the Hittite and Ebed-melech the Ethiopian; and groups of people, such as the Gibeonites. Israel’s King Solomon offered a heartfelt prayer in behalf of all who, like them, joined in true worship with God’s people.* -2 Chronicles 6:32, 33.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-10, 06:21

After Jesus Came to Earth

Later, after Jesus was sent to earth, the way of true worship was established on the basis of his teachings, and God’s purposes were illuminated in a grand way. In time, true worshippers came to be called “Christians.” (Acts 11:26) Thus, Jews who wanted God’s approval had to leave their former way of worship. They did not have the option of choosing between two systems of worship or of worshipping as isolated individuals. As we have seen in God’s Word, true worshippers were united in “one faith.”-Ephesians 4:4, 5.

Today the idea that God deals with mankind through only one religion may seem extreme and unpalatable to some. Yet, it is the conclusion to which the Bible points. In the past, many individuals who had worshipped in their own way came to grips with this fact. They joined themselves to the true worshippers of Jehovah, and any initial misgivings gave way to great blessings and joy. For example, the Bible says that after one Ethiopian man accepted Christianity and was baptized, “he kept going on his way rejoicing.”-Acts 8:39.

Anyone today who accepts and practices the true religion will realize similar blessings. But with so many religions to choose from, how can you identify the one true religion?

How To Find The True Religion

‘If truth from God exists, why must I search to find it?’ Some ask. ‘If God has an important message for all mankind, would he not convey it clearly enough so that people would grasp it immediately, without the need for investigation?’

SURELY God has the ability to do such a thing. But is that the way he has chosen to communicate truth?

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Footnote

You may read about these people in the Bible accounts: Joshua 2:1-7; 6:22-25; Ruth 1:4, 14-17; 2 Samuel 11:3-11; Jeremiah 38:7-13; and Joshua 9:3-9, 16-21.
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How God Conveys Truth

Actually, God conveys his messages in a way that allows sincere seekers of truth to search them out. (Psalm 14:2) Consider the message that God delivered through his prophet Jeremiah centuries ago. It was given to God’s wayward people regarding the coming destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. -Jeremiah 25:8-11; 52:12-14.

Yet, at the same time, other prophets claimed to speak for God. Hananiah foretold peace for Jerusalem. That was a very different message from the one that Jeremiah delivered. So whom was a person at that time to believe--Jeremiah or those who contradicted him?-Jeremiah 23:16, 17; 28:1, 2, 10-17.

To know who was right, sincere Jews needed to know Jehovah as a person. They needed to understand his laws and principles, as well as his attitude toward wrongdoing. Doing so, they would have agreed with God’s words spoken through Jeremiah that “there was not a man repenting over his badness.” (Jeremiah 8:5-7) Furthermore, they would have discerned that this sad situation did not bode well for Jerusalem and its inhabitants.-Deuteronomy 28:15-68; Jeremiah 52:4-14.

Jeremiah’s prophecies about Jerusalem came true. The city was razed by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E.

Although the consequences of disobedience were foretold long in advance, effort was needed to recognize that the time had arrived for God to take action.

What About Christian Truth?

What of the truth proclaimed by Jesus Christ? Did everyone recognize it as a message from God? No. Even though Jesus was right there in the midst of the people of Israel teaching them and performing miracles, most of his listeners did not discern that he was the foretold Messiah--the Christ, or Anointed One.

To the Pharisees who asked when God’s Kingdom was coming, Jesus himself said: “The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observable ness.” He added: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21) God’s appointed Ruler, Jesus, was among them! But those Pharisees refused to open their eyes to the evidence that he was fulfilling the Messianic prophecies and to accept him as “the Christ, the Son of the living God.”--Matthew 16:16

The response to the truth proclaimed by Christ’s first century disciples was similar. While miracles helped to demonstrate that God was supporting the disciples, the truth was still not plain to most. (Acts 8:1-8; 9:32-41) Jesus commissioned his followers to “make disciples of people” by teaching them. As a result of listening and learning Scriptural truths, sincere seekers of truth became believers -Matthew 28:19; Acts 5:42; 17:2-4, 32-34.

It is the same today. The “good news of the kingdom” is being “preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations.” (Matthew 24:14) This is not necessarily being done “with striking observable ness” -in so obvious a way that every individual on earth will recognize it as a message from God. Yet, God’s truth is recognizable and strikes a responsive chord in honest hearted individuals who want to worship God in the way approved by him.-John 10:4, 27.

The fact that you are reading a Bible journal shows that you are likely a sincere seeker of truth. How can you determine which religion is teaching it?

An Approach that Works

Some first-century residents of Beroea were commended by the apostle Paul for the way they responded when he taught them. They did not immediately accept what Paul said as truth; still, they listened respectfully. We can learn from what the beroeans did after hearing the message.
Note that the Bible explains: “now the [Beroeans} were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. Therefore many of them became believers.” (Acts 17:10-12) So their search was not superficial. They did not expect conclusive results in just one or two brief discussions with Paul.

Observe also that the Beroeans “received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind.” This tells us something about the attitude with which they approached their study of the Scriptures. They were not gullible, but neither were they cynical. They did not have a critical attitude toward what was explained by Paul, who was one of God’s human representatives.

Consider this too: The Beroeans were hearing about Christianity for the first time. It sounded good, perhaps too good to be true. But rather than dismiss it, they carefully examined the Scriptures, checking to see ‘whether the things Paul was saying were so.’ Note, too, that those in both Beroea and Thessalonica who made such a diligent search became believers. (Acts 17:4, 12) They did not give up and conclude that truth cannot be found. They identified the true religion.

How the Truth Affects People

When one finds the truth, as did the Beroeans, he is moved to share it enthusiastically. Others may disapprove, holding that it is more humble to feel that other religions could be equally correct. However, the Bible’s truth-once found-instills conviction. It does not leave one wondering if truth is attainable or if all religions might lead to salvation. Finding the truth, however, begins with an earnest examination, which does indeed require humility.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have made such an examination. That is why they believe that they have found the true religion. And they invite you to make a search of the Scriptures so as to identify who is practicing true religion today. While there is much more involved than any simple checklist could provide, the material about first-century Christians in the accompanying box on this page may help you to get started.

By accepting a home Bible study with Jehovah’s Witnesses at no cost, you can make an in-depth search of what the Bible really teaches. Learning this will put you in position to identify the true religion.

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The following is the box mentioned above.
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Features of True Religion

Consider the practices and teachings of first-century Christians:

* They looked to God’s Word as their guide.-2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21.

* They taught that Jesus was God’s Son, distinct from God himself and subordinate to Him.-1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Peter 1:3.

* They taught that the dead will return to life by means of a future resurrection.-Acts 24:15

* They were known overall for the love that prevailed among themselves._John 13:34, 35.

* They did not worship merely as individuals but were organized into congregations and were united under overseers and a central body of elders that looked to Jesus as Head.-Acts 14:21-23; 15:1-31; Ephesians 1:22; 1 Timothy 3:1-13.

* They were zealous preachers of God’s Kingdom as Mankind’s only hope.-Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20: Acts 1:8
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Well, you did a good job reading that whole thing. My fingers did a good job typing it. LOL. (It took my over an hour.)

by Shemuel 2008-03-10, 16:01

Wow

Were you saying that just Jehovah's Witnesses was th true faith or Christianity as a whole ?

by jaden 2008-03-10, 16:39

eh dark jedi u a jw Question

eh and is that from a watchtower????????

by Shemuel 2008-03-10, 16:40

He's a Jehovah's witness, a form of Christianity. Most of us are religious.

by jaden 2008-03-10, 16:42

dude im a jw. yeah we is everywere

by Shemuel 2008-03-10, 17:01

Ooh, very sorry, i thought you mis-spelt Jew. :hits head on table:

by Philly Homer 2008-03-10, 18:49

Jaden, are you by any chance, Canadian? You seem to be saying "Eh" a lot.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus=God? Hmm... let's see if I can find something...

In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made by him, and nothing was made without him.

-John 1:1-3 (NCV)

I believe the NWT says a Word, right? I'm afraid Greek scholars disagree.

Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image and likeness.

-Genesis 1:26 (NCV)

You shall not have any gods beside me.

-Exodus 20:3

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus is God, otherwise we would be all hypocrites, claiming to follow the Ten Commandments but worshiping Jesus as well. Need more proof? Let's turn to Isaiah.

A child has been born to us; God has given a son to us. He will be responsible for leading the people. His name will be Wonderful Counselor, Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

-Isaiah 9:6

I think I've made my point. Just to clarify, I am by no means making an attack on yours or anyone else's beliefs. I don't believe in that, nor do I wish to impose a holier-than-thou attitude upon anyone.

by Shemuel 2008-03-10, 18:52

Are you ordained as well by any chance?

by jaden 2008-03-10, 19:43

what do u meen by ordained????

and to Alkanosis i am canadian, and i much injoy seeing others views of religion.

by stewi0001 2008-03-10, 20:19

<= The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Razz

by Philly Homer 2008-03-10, 20:35

I think Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are among the nicest people as part of any organized religion. But really, this is one of the ways a forum can become quickly divided against itself... I'll try not to contribute to the dispute...

by stewi0001 2008-03-10, 20:51

well that is why I'm not going to talk against other faiths (which I believe is wrong) or push mine on others.

by Philly Homer 2008-03-10, 20:54

jaden wrote:eh and is that from a watchtower????????

I believe Watchtower Society publishes "Awake!" so yes. By the way, does the magazine's name have anything to do with the Jehovah's Witness doctrine of soul sleep?

@Stewi: Meh, the Bible does tell you to spread your faith, right? Well, my doctrine is to simply only evangelize if people want to hear it. I don't want to be a "holier-than-thou, Bible-thumping Evangelical." However, I'm fine with it if anyone else wants to state their beliefs as long as it doesn't involve any inflammatory actions.

by Jtull 2008-03-11, 00:42

<---- Christian

by jaden 2008-03-11, 12:12

na the awake has its name onthe basis of the scripture, stay awake so u are not found sleeping in the time of the end.

can't remember the scripture right now but thats the main idea of it

by Philly Homer 2008-03-11, 17:56

You mean Jesus telling his disciples to stay awake while he was at Gethsemane? I see, I see.

by jaden 2008-03-11, 21:15

nope

matthew 24: 43,44

But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.

by killerflood 2008-03-11, 21:23

<----methodist Very Happy

i know random

by Philly Homer 2008-03-11, 22:07

Ah yes. The "no one knows the hour or the day" one. Okay, I see. By the way, according to your doctrine, what happens to non-Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Shemuel 2008-03-12, 16:18

Well if only 144,000 people get into heaven, then there's not going to be much room for non Jehovah's witnesses

by Philly Homer 2008-03-12, 16:22

Hmm... if I'm not mistaken, and this is from my church...

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in Hell, as they only focus on the merciful qualities of God. The top 144,000 JW's go to Heaven and just good, decent JW's will go to Heaven on Earth. Everyone else is obliterated and ceases to exist.

Well, at least this I know... If you guys are right, then I won't have to regret it when I no longer walk upon this Earth.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 17:51

Well, the 144,000 aren't necessarily the top JW's. LOL. Most that have been chosen to be part of the heavenly flock, were chosen in the early part of the 1900's. Alot of them were just chosen because of the time period in which they were living. Oh, and it's not really what you would call heaven on earth. It's just that the earth is going to be turned into a Paradise. LOL.
Oh, and I have a response to your Trinity thingy. LOL.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 17:55

Alkanosis wrote:Jaden, are you by any chance, Canadian? You seem to be saying "Eh" a lot.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus=God? Hmm... let's see if I can find something...

In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made by him, and nothing was made without him.

-John 1:1-3 (NCV)

I believe the NWT says a Word, right? I'm afraid Greek scholars disagree.

Then God said, "Let us make human beings in our image and likeness.

-Genesis 1:26 (NCV)

You shall not have any gods beside me.

-Exodus 20:3

I think it's pretty clear that Jesus is God, otherwise we would be all hypocrites, claiming to follow the Ten Commandments but worshiping Jesus as well. Need more proof? Let's turn to Isaiah.

A child has been born to us; God has given a son to us. He will be responsible for leading the people. His name will be Wonderful Counselor, Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

-Isaiah 9:6

I think I've made my point. Just to clarify, I am by no means making an attack on yours or anyone else's beliefs. I don't believe in that, nor do I wish to impose a holier-than-thou attitude upon anyone.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 17:55

Watchtower comments on John 1:1-2
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Back to John 1:1, 2

EVEN at the end of his first letter to Christians the apostle John brings us to the same understanding, namely, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that humans begotten of God are children of God with Jesus Christ. An American Translation presents the end of John’s letter as follows: “We know that no child of God commits sin, but that he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him. We know that we are children of God, while the whole world is in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us power to recognize him who is true; and we are in union with him who is true.” How? “Through his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Dear children, keep away from idols.”—1 John 5:18-21, AT; RS.

Since the One of whom Jesus Christ is the Son is “the true God and eternal life,” and since Jesus Christ is “he who was born of God” and who protects God’s other children, how are we to understand John 1:1, 2, of which there are differing translations? Many translations read: “And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Others read: “And the Word (the Logos) was divine.” Another: “And the Word was god.” Others: “And the Word was a god.” Since we have examined so much of what John wrote about Jesus who was the Word made flesh, we are now in position to determine which of those several translations is correct. It means our salvation.

Take first that popular rendering by the Authorized Version or Douay Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” Here a few lines deserve to be quoted from the book The Four Gospels Harmonized and Translated, by Count Leo Tolstoy, as follows:

If it says that in the beginning was the comprehension, or word, and that the word was to God, or with God, or for God, it is impossible to go on and say that it was God. If it was God, it could stand in no relation to God.

Certainly the apostle John was not so unreasonable as to say that someone (“the Word”) was with some other individual (“God”) and at the same time was that other individual (“God”).

John proves that the Word who was with God “was made flesh” and became Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ was “the Son of God.” So it would be proper to say that the Word was the Son of God. For anyone to say that the Word was God, “the only true God,” would be contrary to what the apostle John proves by the rest of his writings. In the last book of the Bible, namely, in Revelation 19:13, John calls him “The Word of God,” saying: “And his name is called The Word of God.” (AV; Dy) Note that his name is not called “God the Word,” but is called “The Word of God,” or God’s Word. Hence John 1:1 must mean, at most, that the Word was of God.

At hand here we have a book entitled “The Patristic Gospels—An English Version of the holy Gospels as they existed in the Second Century,” by Roslyn D’Onston. The title page tells how this version was put together. In John 1:1 this version reads: “and the Word was God.” But it has this footnote: “The true reading here is, probably, of God. See Critical Note.”—Page 118.

Now why is it that translators disagree as to what the Word was—“God,” or, “god,” or, “a god”? It is because the Greek word for “God” is at the beginning of the statement although it belongs to the predicate, and it also does not have the definite article “the” in front of it. Below, to illustrate this, we give on the first set of lines the Greek text according to the fourth-century uncial manuscripts; and then on the second line, how the Greek text is pronounced in our language today; and on the third line a word-for-word English translation. Note Greek abbreviations for “God.”

ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ

EN ARKHEI ĒN HO LOGOS, KAI HO LOGOS

IN BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD

HΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ

ĒN PROS TON THN, KAI THS ĒN HO LOGOS.

WAS WITH THE GOD, AND GOD WAS THE WORD.

ΟΥΤΟΣ ΗΝ ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΝ

HOUTOS ĒN EN ARKHEI PROS TON THN.

THIS WAS IN BEGINNING WITH THE GOD.

Please note the omission of the definite article “THE” in front of the second “GOD.” On this omission Professor Moule asks: “Is the omission of the article in theós ēn ho lógos nothing more than a matter of idiom?” Then, in the next paragraph, Moule goes on to say:

On the other hand it needs to be recognized that the Fourth Evangelist [John] need not have chosen this word-order, and that his choice of it, though creating some ambiguity, may in itself be an indication of his meaning; and [Bishop] Westcott’s note (in loc.), although it may require the addition of some reference to idiom, does still, perhaps, represent the writer’s theological intention: ‘It is necessarily without the article (theós not ho theós) inasmuch as it describes the nature of the Word and does not identify His Person. It would be pure Sabellianism to say “the Word was ho theós”. No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the Word. Compare the converse statement of the true humanity of Christ five (hóti huiòs anthrópou estín . . . ).’

The late Bishop Westcott, coproducer of the famous Westcott and Hort Greek text of the Christian Scriptures, speaks of the “true humanity of Christ” and yet he argues that Jesus Christ was not “true humanity” but a mixture, a so-called God-Man. However, note that the Bishop says that the omission of the definite article the before the Greek word theós makes the word theós like an adjective that “describes the nature of the Word” rather than identify his person. This fact accounts for it that some translators render it: “And the Word was divine.” That is not the same as saying that the Word was God and was identical with God. One grammarian would translate the passage: “And the Word was deity,” to bring out his view that the Word was not “all of God.” According to trinitarians the Word was only a third of God, a coequal Second Person in a three-in-one God. However, our consideration of all that John has written has proved how false such a teaching is, a teaching that even the trinitarians themselves cannot understand or explain. The Word is the Son of God, not the Second Person of God.

The Four Gospels, by C. C. Torrey, shows the difference between theós with ho (the definite article) and theós without ho by printing his translation as follows: “And the Word was with God, and the Word was god.” (Second edition of 1947)

The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson, of 1864, shows the difference by printing its translation as follows: “And the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God.”

Even translations printed in those ways indicate that the Word, in his prehuman existence in heaven with God, had a godly quality but was not God himself or a part of God. The Word was the Son of God. So the question arises, What would we call such a Son of God who first of all had this godly quality among the sons of God in heaven? We remember that Jesus Christ told the Jews that those human judges to whom or against whom God’s word came were called “gods” in Psalm 82:1-6.—John 10:34-36.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 17:56

[color=olive]“THE SONS OF GOD”

The Hebrew Scriptures mention “the sons of God” (beneí ha-Elohím) in Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1 and 38:7. Gesenius’ Hebrew Grammar, on page 418, paragraph 2, comments on those Bible verses and says the following:

There is another use of ben- [“son of”] or beneí [“sons of”] to denote membership of a guild or society (or of a tribe, or any definite class). Thus beneí Elohím [“sons of God”] or beneí ha-Elohím [“sons of The God”] Genesis 6:2, 4, Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7 (compare also beneí Elím Psalms 29:1; 89:7) properly means not sons of god(s), but beings of the class of elohim or elim; . . .

And then this Grammar goes on to explain the Hebrew expression in 1 Kings 20:35 for “sons of the prophets” as meaning “persons belonging to the guild of prophets”; and the Hebrew expression in Nehemiah 3:8 for “son of the apothecaries” as meaning “one of the guild of apothecaries.”—See also Amos 7:14.

The Lexicon for the Old Testament Books, by Koehler and Baumgartner, agrees with Gesenius’ Hebrew Grammar. On page 134, column 1, lines 12, 13, edition of 1951, this Lexicon prints first the Hebrew expression and then its meaning in German and in English and says: “BENEI ELOHIM (individual) divine beings, gods.” And then on page 51, column 1, lines 2, 3, it says: “BENEI HA-ELOHIM the (single) gods Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7.”

In Psalm 8:4, 5 David speaks prophetically of how the Word of God became flesh and David calls the angels of heaven elohím or “gods,” using the same word that occurs in Psalm 82:1, 6. The Authorized or King James Version reads: “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels; and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” Hebrews 2:6-9 applies those words to Jesus Christ, how in becoming flesh he “was made a little lower than the angels.” (AV) However, An American Translation renders Psalm 8:5 to read: “Yet thou hast made him but little lower than God.” The Book of Psalms, by S. T. Byington, translates it: “And you have made him little short of God.” Moffatt’s translation reads: “Yet thou hast made him little less than divine.”

The New World Translation reads: “You also proceeded to make him a little less than godlike ones.” Is this last translation a teaching of polytheism or the worship of many gods? Not at all! Why not? Because the Hebrew Scriptures actually contain these things and apply the title elohím or “gods” to men and to angels, and still those Hebrew Scriptures did not teach polytheism to the Jews.

Do not forget that the Bible teaches that the spirit creature who transformed himself into Satan the Devil was originally one of those “sons of God” or one of those “godlike ones,” one of those elohím. Also the spirits that became demons under Satan were once numbered among those “godlike ones.” So it is no remarkable thing that the apostle Paul calls Satan “the god of this world,” or that he says that the pagan nations have made the spirit demons their gods and offer sacrifice to them.—2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Cor. 10:20, 21, AV.

Paul said: “Though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many)”; but Paul was not teaching polytheism thereby. For he added: “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” (1 Cor. 8:5, 6, AV) We worship the same God that the Lord Jesus Christ worships, and that is the “one God, the Father.” This worship we render to him through the Son of God, our “one Lord Jesus Christ.”

Against the background of the teachings of the apostle John, yes, of all the Scriptures of the Holy Bible, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures renders John 1:1-3 as follows: “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”

Certainly the Word or Logos, whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures, was the chief or the firstborn among all the other angels whom the Hebrew Scriptures call elohím or “gods.” He is the “only begotten Son” because he is the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. (John 3:16, AV; AS; Dy) If the Word or Logos was not the first living creature whom God created, who, then, is God’s first created Son, and how has this first creation been honored and used as the first-made one of the family of God’s sons? We know of no one but the Word or Logos, “The Word of God.” Like a word that is produced by a speaker, the Word or Logos is God’s creation, God’s first creation. Since unjust judges on earth against whom God’s word of judgment came were Scripturally called “gods” (elohím), the Word or Logos whom God has appointed to be a just Judge and by whom God’s word has come to us is also Scripturally called “a god.” He is more mighty than human judges.

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 17:56

“THE WORD”

His very title “The Word” marks him as the Chief One among the sons of God. Here we are reminded of the Abyssinian Kal Hatzè, described by James Bruce in Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile in 1768, 1769, 1770, 1771, 1772 and 1773:

There is an officer, named Kal Hatzè, who stands always upon steps at the side of the lattice-window, where there is a hole covered in the inside with a curtain of green taffeta; behind this curtain the king sits, and through this hole he sends what he has to say to the Board, who rise and receive the messenger standing. . . . Hitherto, while there were strangers in the room, he had spoken to us by an officer called Kal Hatzè, the voice or word of the king. . . . exhibitions of this kind, made by the king in public, at no period seem to have suited the genius of this people. Formerly, his face was never seen, nor any part of him, excepting sometimes his foot. He sits in a kind of balcony, with lattice windows and curtains before him. Even yet he covers his face on audiences or public occasions, and when in judgment. On cases of treason, he sits within his balcony, and speaks through a hole in the side of it, to an officer called Kal Hatzè, “the voice or word of the king,” by whom he sends his questions, or any thing else that occurs, to the judges, who are seated at the council-table.

Somewhat suggestive of this is the article entitled “Indonesians’ Idol—Sukarno,” as appearing in the New York Times under date of September 12, 1961. Under his picture is the legend “Tongue of the Indonesian people,” and the article goes on to say:

. . . Almost without fail the speaker will add: “When I die, do not write in golden letters on my tomb: ‘Here lies His Excellency Doctor Engineer Sukarno, First President of the Republic of Indonesia.’ Just write: ‘Here lies Bung [Brother] Karno, Tongue of the Indonesian People.’”

In calling him “Tongue,” it means he speaks for the whole people.

The Bible, in Exodus 4:16, uses a like figure of speech, when God says to the prophet Moses concerning his brother Aaron: “And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.” (AV) As a spokesman for the godlike Moses, Aaron served as a mouth for him. Likewise with the Word or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. To show that he was God’s Word or spokesman, Jesus said to the Jews: “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” Explaining that he spoke for God, Jesus also said: “Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”—John 7:16, 17; 12:50, AV.

Since Jesus Christ as the Word of God occupies a position held by no other creation of God, we can appreciate why the apostle John wrote, in John 1:1: “And the Word was a god.” We can appreciate also John’s words in John 1:18, as recorded in the most ancient Greek manuscripts: “No man hath seen God at any time: an Only Begotten God, the One existing within the bosom of the Father, he hath interpreted him.” (Ro) Since he is “an Only Begotten God” who has interpreted his heavenly Father to us, we can appreciate the proper force of the words of the apostle Thomas addressed to the resurrected Jesus Christ: “My Lord and my God.”—John 20:28.

Because Jesus Christ as “the Word of God” is the universal Spokesman for God his Father, the apostle John very fittingly presents Jesus Christ as God’s Chief Witness. The bearing of witness was the chief purpose of the Word or Logos in becoming flesh and dwelling among us creatures of blood and flesh. Standing before the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate when on trial for his life, the Word made flesh said: “To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”—John 18:37, AV.

In view of his record when he was on earth as God’s chief witness, the “Word of God” in heavenly glory could say, in Revelation 3:14: “These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.” (AV) Consequently the apostle John could pray for grace and peace to the Christian congregations from God and “from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.” (Rev. 1:4, 5, AV) He is the Chief of the Christian witnesses of Jehovah God.

Since Jesus Christ is now the glorified “Word of God” in heaven, we do well to listen to what he says, for when he speaks it is as if Jehovah God himself were speaking. (Rev. 19:13) By listening to the voice of the glorified, living “Word of God” we prove that we are “of the truth.” By knowing his voice and listening and responding to his voice we prove that we are his “sheep.” (John 10:3, 4, 16, 27) If we hear his voice and open the door and let him in where we live, he will come in and have a spiritual supper with us. (Rev. 3:20) More than any other inspired Christian writer of the Bible the apostle John wrote of witnesses and of witnessing. If we, like John, listen to the voice of the royal “Word of God,” we too will be faithful witnesses, bearing witness to the truth that sets men free and that leads to life everlasting in God’s righteous new world. Finally, we say, Thanks to Jehovah God for using the apostle John to make known to us who the Word is.
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Watchtower comments on Genesis 1:26
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It no doubt was to this master craftsman that God said: “Let us make man in our image.” (Genesis 1:26) Some have claimed that the “us” and “our” in this expression indicate a Trinity. But if you were to say, ‘Let us make something for ourselves,’ no one would normally understand this to imply that several persons are combined as one inside of you. You simply mean that two or more individuals will work together on something. So, too, when God used “us” and “our,” he was simply addressing another individual, his first spirit creation, the master craftsman, the prehuman Jesus.
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Comments on Exodus 20:3
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"You must not have any other gods beside me."
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What? How does that support the trinity doctrine? If you look at the context of that scripture, you can clearly see that it is simply stating that we must not worship other Gods. (Like false Gods.)
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Comments on Isaiah 9:6
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The title “Mighty God” applied to Jesus Christ at Isaiah 9:6 is also used to prove that Jesus is God, because Isaiah 10:21 and Jeremiah 32:18 speak of Jehovah God as “mighty God.” But here again too much is read into the texts. Only the superlatives and the infinites can dogmatically be limited to Jehovah, such as “the Most High.” Jesus is a god, a mighty god, and so is Jehovah a God, a mighty God. But additionally, Jehovah is the mighty God and also the God Almighty. The term in the Hebrew, el gibbór, “mighty God,” is not limited to Jehovah, but the term el Shaddái, “God Almighty,” is.—Gen. 17:1.
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You might say that all of the scriptures you mentioned could be interpreted to support the Trinity, well, not if they contradict these scriptures:

Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

Matt. 20:20-23, RS: “The mother of the sons of Zebedee . . . said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . . . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’” (How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

Matt. 12:31, 32, RS: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (If the Holy Spirit were a person and were God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the Holy Spirit was greater than the Son. Instead, what Jesus said shows that the Father, to whom the “Spirit” belonged, is greater than Jesus, the Son of man.)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)

1 Cor. 15:27, 28 RS: “‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”

The Hebrew word Shad·dai′ and the Greek word Pan·to·kra′tor are both translated “Almighty.” Both original-language words are repeatedly applied to Jehovah, the Father. (Ex. 6:3; Rev. 19:6) Neither expression is ever applied to either the Son or the holy spirit.

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (This presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.)
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What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

In The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

According to the Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are G[ree]k philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(New York, 1965), p. 899.
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I hope that you really meditate upon these scriptures, and see if the Bible really does support the Trinity doctrine. I don't mean for this to be like a religious show down, or anything, I just want you to really think about this stuff.
Oh, and see ya in two weeks. (Save other questions until then. LOL)

by Shemuel 2008-03-12, 17:57

Wow. What are you getting this stuff from?

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 18:00

My mommie. LOL (Not.) I have a database program for answering these kind of questions.

by Shemuel 2008-03-12, 18:07

Oh good. I was getting a bit worried about you then, knowing all like that

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 18:55

New[color=olive]]You might say that all of the scriptures you mentioned could be interpreted to support the Trinity, well, not if they contradict these scriptures:

Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

Matt. 20:20-23, RS: “The mother of the sons of Zebedee . . . said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . . . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’” (How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

Matt. 12:31, 32, RS: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (If the Holy Spirit were a person and were God, this text would flatly contradict the Trinity doctrine, because it would mean that in some way the Holy Spirit was greater than the Son. Instead, what Jesus said shows that the Father, to whom the “Spirit” belonged, is greater than Jesus, the Son of man.)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)

1 Cor. 15:27, 28 RS: “‘God has put all things in subjection under his [Jesus’] feet.’ But when it says, ‘All things are put in subjection under him,’ it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.”

The Hebrew word Shad·dai′ and the Greek word Pan·to·kra′tor are both translated “Almighty.” Both original-language words are repeatedly applied to Jehovah, the Father. (Ex. 6:3; Rev. 19:6) Neither expression is ever applied to either the Son or the holy spirit.

1 Cor. 8:5, 6, RS: “Although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many ‘gods’ and many ‘lords’—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” (This presents the Father as the “one God” of Christians and as being in a class distinct from Jesus Christ.)

Well, I pulled together this part. LOL. Oh, and I have studied all of the information in the past, but it's pretty hard to remember all of it. LOL. [/font]

by Philly Homer 2008-03-12, 20:06

Let's see, I'm only going to actually answer the ones that I can answer. I do not have all the answers.

@Matthew 12:31-32- They all have different tasks. God is the Father, who loves and punishes us when we stray off-course. Jesus is the Son who has died for us. The Holy Spirit is God's soul that is sent out to change us to be more like Christ.

@Matthew 20:20-23- Refer to the above.

@John 14:28- Hmm... nothing immediately near this passage. However, if we look earlier at verses 9-11... "Jesus answered, "I have been with you a long time now. Do you still not know me, Phillip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am the Father and the Father is me? The words I say to you don't come from me, but the Father who is in me and does his own work. Believe me when I say that I am the Father and the Father is me."

@1 Corinthians 8:5-6- Umm... did verse 6 just shut down your whole argument here? God's the only one who created. By saying Jesus created you are implying that Jesus is an equal to God. That's impossible, unless Jesus was God Himself.

Meh... I need better training in my theology. Can't even defend myself properly...

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 20:43

@Matthew 12:31-32: You can't assume that the scripture is implying that they are all one. If this were true, it would contradict all of the scriptures I mentioned in my last post. (This is also for Matthew 20:20-23)

@John 14:28: There are many different bible translations that render this scripture differently. Mine translates it this way: Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to YOU men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me; otherwise, believe on account of the works themselves.
Notice that it says that it says that they are in union in with each other. Many bible translations translate it in your bible's way, but if your bible was accurate, when it comes to this scripture, it would contradict many of the scriptures that I mentioned in my last post. LOL.

@1 Corinthians 8:5-6: Well, not necessarily, this scripture is most likely implying that Jesus helped create with God. If it referred to anything else, it would contradict many of the scriptures that I mentioned in my last post. LOL.

by Philly Homer 2008-03-12, 20:52

Well, what translation do you use?

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 20:54

The New World Translation.
Read this:

New World Translation

Definition: A translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah. These expressed themselves regarding their work as follows: “The translators of this work, who fear and love the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures, feel toward Him a special responsibility to transmit his thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible. They also feel a responsibility toward the searching readers who depend upon a translation of the inspired Word of the Most High God for their everlasting salvation.” This translation was originally released in sections, from 1950 to 1960. Editions in other languages have been based on the English translation.

On what is the “New World Translation” based?

As a basis for translating the Hebrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. The 1984 revision of the New World Translation benefited from updating in harmony with the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia of 1977. Additionally, the Dead Sea Scrolls and numerous early translations into other languages were consulted. For the Christian Greek Scriptures, the master Greek text of 1881 as prepared by Westcott and Hort was used primarily, but several other master texts were consulted as well as numerous early versions in other languages.

Who were the translators?

When presenting as a gift the publishing rights to their translation, the New World Bible Translation Committee requested that its members remain anonymous. The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania has honored their request. The translators were not seeking prominence for themselves but only to honor the Divine Author of the Holy Scriptures.

Over the years other translation committees have taken a similar view. For example, the jacket of the Reference Edition (1971) of the New American Standard Bible states: “We have not used any scholar’s name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits.”

Is it really a scholarly translation?

Since the translators have chosen to remain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. The translation must be appraised on its own merits.

What kind of translation is this? For one thing, it is an accurate, largely literal translation from the original languages. It is not a loose paraphrase, in which the translators leave out details that they consider unimportant and add ideas that they believe will be helpful. As an aid to students, a number of editions provide extensive footnotes showing variant readings where expressions can legitimately be rendered in more than one way, also a listing of the specific ancient manuscripts on which certain renderings are based.

Some verses may not read the same as what a person is accustomed to. Which rendering is right? Readers are invited to examine manuscript support cited in footnotes of the Reference edition of the New World Translation, read explanations given in the appendix, and compare the rendering with a variety of other translations. They will generally find that some other translators have also seen the need to express the matter in a similar manner.

Why is the name Jehovah used in the Christian Greek Scriptures?

It should be noted that the New World Translation is not the only Bible that does this. The divine name appears in translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures into Hebrew, in passages where quotations are made directly from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. The Emphatic Diaglott (1864) contains the name Jehovah 18 times. Versions of the Christian Greek Scriptures in at least 38 other languages also use a vernacular form of the divine name.

The emphasis that Jesus Christ put on the name of his Father indicates that he personally used it freely. (Matt. 6:9; John 17:6, 26) According to Jerome of the fourth century C.E., the apostle Matthew wrote his Gospel first in Hebrew, and that Gospel makes numerous quotations of passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that contain the divine name. Others of the Christian Greek Scripture writers quoted from the Greek Septuagint (a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, begun about 280 B.C.E.), early copies of which contained the divine name in Hebrew characters, as shown by actual fragments that have been preserved.

Professor George Howard of the University of Georgia wrote: “Since the Tetragram [four Hebrew letters for the divine name] was still written in the copies of the Greek Bible which made up the Scriptures of the early church, it is reasonable to believe that the N[ew] T[estament] writers, when quoting from Scripture, preserved the Tetragram within the biblical text.”—Journal of Biblical Literature, March 1977, p. 77.

by Philly Homer 2008-03-12, 20:59

Well, anyways, I am going to ask you to check your NWT Bible. John 20:28, please.

http://www.evangelicalbible.com/jw.htm

Here's some comparisons, and criticisms.

EDIT- Wow, now that I think about it, I have more grounds to support my position that at least Jesus is God. The Bible doesn't exactly say much about the Holy Spirit, though...

-Jesus received worship from both angels and mankind. (Matthew 28:9, 17, Philippians 2:10, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5)
-Worship is reserved exclusively for God (not to either mankind or angels). (Exodus 20:5, Acts 14:15, 20:26, Revelation 19:10)

-Scripture teaches that God alone has the authority to forgive sin. (Isaiah 43:25, Psalm 32:5, Psalm 130) This same attribute is a part of Jesus’ ministry.(Mark 2:5-7)

by Darkjedi 2008-03-12, 21:03

I'll look at it tonight. LOL, I have to go soon. My mom's going to get back from the mall anytime, and she's going to make me get off the computer. LOL!

by jaden 2008-03-12, 21:33

for all the trinity stuff going on here you could look at

http://watchtower.org/cgi-bin/lib/ProcessForm.pl

for many publications and articles porving it false.

i do not meen to bash the trinity just bringing these to the for

by Philly Homer 2008-03-12, 21:43

A nonexistent article proves nothing false, sorry...

by jaden 2008-03-13, 15:40

DARN!!! just searth trinity on the watchtower.org site and u will gate no a bunch

by Philly Homer 2008-03-13, 17:59

Watchtower Article wrote:IF THE Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God's revelation of himself to mankind.

Well, with that kind of thinking I can go and say this.

IF THE prediction that 1914/1925/any other date by you guys was correct, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God's revelation of himself to mankind.

You can change "prediction... blah blah blah" to anything else, like soul sleep or ONLY 144,000 going to Heaven.

by jaden 2008-03-14, 22:37

people keep saying soul sleep. what the hell are u talking about.

by Philly Homer 2008-03-15, 00:09

Well, you guys teach that when a person dies, they are asleep until God awakens them. At least, that's what my church said... It may be wrong, though.

by Jtull 2008-03-15, 02:02

i think thats wrong because time is irrelivant in heaven so there is no waitin. lol!

by Philly Homer 2008-03-15, 02:43

Also, Jesus tells one of the criminals next to him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

by Jtull 2008-03-15, 02:44

yea true i forgot that one.

by killerflood 2008-03-15, 14:00

i bet you didnt even know that Razz

by Jtull 2008-03-15, 22:49

I did i just dont remember the exact phrases well.

by jaden 2008-03-22, 00:06

our belief is when you die you are dead!!!!!! you'r soul does not live on cause u r a living soul. God remembers each of us and endows our personalitys into a perfect body that resemble our own during the reserection.

a person is a soul Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”

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