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Red Dead Redemption
by Thingy 2010-07-12, 15:30
This a work in progress, so you might want to wait for the full review.
The western genre hasn't been explored that much in gaming, and the few attempts at making a proper western game that have been made in the last five years haven't been very successful. The few western games that, at their time, were good have been obscured by time and technological advancements, like the old arcade games and not as old console games. The only people who know about them these days are those who have played them, know alot of gaming history or have heard about them from someone who has played them.
So when Rockstar promised us a ''full'' sandbox game set in the last days of the frontier, alot of people, me included, got excited. And now, it's finally here. So, is this the one we've been waiting for, or is it a dud?
You will be playing as John Marston, an ex criminal who is now being blackmailed by the state to kill his former gang members so the railroad companies can operate in New Austin undisturbed. Most of the game will be in New Austin, a fictional state on the last surviving part of the frontier, but a significant part of the story is in the mexican border state of (to be inserted later)
Setting
It's not very hard to make an OK western setting, all you have to do is watch a couple of western films, replicate that and voila, here's your western game. But making it feel authentic and detailed is harder. Rockstar has succeeded on both the latter points.
They almost flawlessly captured the last days of the west, with the vast American prairie with its bison, the industrialized town of Blackwater and a few small ranches in the east, the last remaining part of the American wild
west with the authentic wild west town of Armadillo in the west, the cold snowy mountains of the northeast and mexico in it's most dangerous and fragile form in the south.
But the horses definitely take the cake. You have to see them for yourself to understand why. I mean, the horse physics are just freaking amazing. It's like they took a real horse and stuffed it into the disc somehow. The muscles, the legs, the movements, it's all immensely detailed. It's obvious that they put alot of programming, animating and motion capturing effort into the horses, and it definitely paid off.
Be glad Rockstar doesn't have a sick humor, or all that motion capture and physics could have been used for some really sick things... (Read: Waggly Horse Dongs)
Probably because you'll be staring at your horses arse
alot... The main reason isn't the travel times, i'll tell you why later. But the travel times can be huge, at least if you want to take in the enviroment. You can, like in most other rockstar games, just fast travel to where ever you want to go, but you'd be missing out on so much. The world is immense, but unlike, say, Just Cause 1, which is simply jaw droppingly huge, it's not 80% padding. The scenery is beautiful, and if you get tired of looking at the world, there's plenty of distractions and events along the way. You could stop in a settlement along the way and play one of the miningames, like horse shoe throwing, breaking in horses (it's kind of like rodeo, and doesn't have any animal murder/uber violence), poker, liar's dice etc. Or you could hunt and harvest some of the local wild life and herbs. You will also encounter small events on the way, what kind of events depends on your Honor rating (how good/bad you are). For an example, if your moral rating is positive enough, you will occasionally be ambushed by bands of criminals
You might also find a side quest, but more on that in the story section.
See that horse's ass? Take a good look at it, because you will be seeing alot more of it.
The setting gets a nearly flawless 10/10
I have little but praise for RDR'S presentation. The graphics are simply excellent, helping bring the world to life with some great lighting, effects and an amazing physics engine. Sure, there are some graphic and physics bugs, but the fact that they've managed to keep the graphics and physics so damn good in a sandbox game as vast as Red Dead without it being a sea of bugs is a pretty damn impressive achievement that few other games have done, or even come close to.
Another great achievement for Rockstar is the sound. It is simply amazing. The voice acting is superb. There are few flaws, and those are mostly minor flaws, even for the background characters (townsfolk, saloon musicians, hookers etc). That combined with equally superbly written dialogue makes the game so much more immersive.
But the soundtrack definitely takes the presentation cake for this game, elevating scenes in the story that otherwise wouldn't matter much to new levels of epicness and supporting the setting with some great pieces drawing inspiration and paying homage to the great western classics, mostly of the spaghetti western variant.
Actually, just saying they've managed to elevate some scenes in the story to new levels of epicness isn't enough. Rockstar has done something amazing here. These scenes, while milestones in the story, would probably have meant very little more than the other mid way missions to the story if Rockstar hadn't put that music there. I won't spoil it for you however, since this is something that has to be experienced to be understood.
Presentation gets a 10/10 for excellent voice acting, graphics, physics and a memorable soundtrack.
[WIP]
The western genre hasn't been explored that much in gaming, and the few attempts at making a proper western game that have been made in the last five years haven't been very successful. The few western games that, at their time, were good have been obscured by time and technological advancements, like the old arcade games and not as old console games. The only people who know about them these days are those who have played them, know alot of gaming history or have heard about them from someone who has played them.
So when Rockstar promised us a ''full'' sandbox game set in the last days of the frontier, alot of people, me included, got excited. And now, it's finally here. So, is this the one we've been waiting for, or is it a dud?
You will be playing as John Marston, an ex criminal who is now being blackmailed by the state to kill his former gang members so the railroad companies can operate in New Austin undisturbed. Most of the game will be in New Austin, a fictional state on the last surviving part of the frontier, but a significant part of the story is in the mexican border state of (to be inserted later)
Setting
It's not very hard to make an OK western setting, all you have to do is watch a couple of western films, replicate that and voila, here's your western game. But making it feel authentic and detailed is harder. Rockstar has succeeded on both the latter points.
They almost flawlessly captured the last days of the west, with the vast American prairie with its bison, the industrialized town of Blackwater and a few small ranches in the east, the last remaining part of the American wild
west with the authentic wild west town of Armadillo in the west, the cold snowy mountains of the northeast and mexico in it's most dangerous and fragile form in the south.
But the horses definitely take the cake. You have to see them for yourself to understand why. I mean, the horse physics are just freaking amazing. It's like they took a real horse and stuffed it into the disc somehow. The muscles, the legs, the movements, it's all immensely detailed. It's obvious that they put alot of programming, animating and motion capturing effort into the horses, and it definitely paid off.
Be glad Rockstar doesn't have a sick humor, or all that motion capture and physics could have been used for some really sick things... (Read: Waggly Horse Dongs)
Probably because you'll be staring at your horses arse
alot... The main reason isn't the travel times, i'll tell you why later. But the travel times can be huge, at least if you want to take in the enviroment. You can, like in most other rockstar games, just fast travel to where ever you want to go, but you'd be missing out on so much. The world is immense, but unlike, say, Just Cause 1, which is simply jaw droppingly huge, it's not 80% padding. The scenery is beautiful, and if you get tired of looking at the world, there's plenty of distractions and events along the way. You could stop in a settlement along the way and play one of the miningames, like horse shoe throwing, breaking in horses (it's kind of like rodeo, and doesn't have any animal murder/uber violence), poker, liar's dice etc. Or you could hunt and harvest some of the local wild life and herbs. You will also encounter small events on the way, what kind of events depends on your Honor rating (how good/bad you are). For an example, if your moral rating is positive enough, you will occasionally be ambushed by bands of criminals
You might also find a side quest, but more on that in the story section.
See that horse's ass? Take a good look at it, because you will be seeing alot more of it.
The setting gets a nearly flawless 10/10
Presentation
I have little but praise for RDR'S presentation. The graphics are simply excellent, helping bring the world to life with some great lighting, effects and an amazing physics engine. Sure, there are some graphic and physics bugs, but the fact that they've managed to keep the graphics and physics so damn good in a sandbox game as vast as Red Dead without it being a sea of bugs is a pretty damn impressive achievement that few other games have done, or even come close to.
Another great achievement for Rockstar is the sound. It is simply amazing. The voice acting is superb. There are few flaws, and those are mostly minor flaws, even for the background characters (townsfolk, saloon musicians, hookers etc). That combined with equally superbly written dialogue makes the game so much more immersive.
But the soundtrack definitely takes the presentation cake for this game, elevating scenes in the story that otherwise wouldn't matter much to new levels of epicness and supporting the setting with some great pieces drawing inspiration and paying homage to the great western classics, mostly of the spaghetti western variant.
Actually, just saying they've managed to elevate some scenes in the story to new levels of epicness isn't enough. Rockstar has done something amazing here. These scenes, while milestones in the story, would probably have meant very little more than the other mid way missions to the story if Rockstar hadn't put that music there. I won't spoil it for you however, since this is something that has to be experienced to be understood.
Presentation gets a 10/10 for excellent voice acting, graphics, physics and a memorable soundtrack.
Story and gameplay
And this is where the game starts showing off it's multi personality disorder... The story is great as far as console games go, and seems to do it's best (and succeeds) to join the ''Games are art'' camp. It has a message, a commentary on human nature and it's quite well written. In fact, RDR's story, while it can't contend with the story of a good movie, is on par if not better than alot of the movies that have come out in the last year or two. And this is saying alot considering the other story offerings this console generation's games have. I mean, have you actually sat down and payed attention to Modern Warfare 2's story? It's absolute shit. And the first one, while better than the second, is barely on par with a popcorn action movie, and the same goes for a pretty big chunk of the games that have come out for consoles in the last year or two. The big publishers are like Hollywood, often turning down games with great stories and innovative gameplay in favor of safer, and blander, games. And, like for Hollywood, it's a strategy that is turning out to work in their favor. Just look at MW2's sales numbers.
But unlike alot of other games out there that only use the story to give you a reason to kill things and show off those big shiny explosions, RDR manages to make a very enjoyable mix of gameplay and story with varied missions that not only advance the story, but most also develop your understanding of the world, the people in it and the characters of the story. However, some people might find the travel times between objectives too big. Rockstar has, in my opinion, managed to keep the traveling from being too boring by having the characters you're traveling with converse with Marston, which often increases your understanding of the world and the characters themselves, but i have to admit, they can be really freaking long and uneventful even if you enjoy the conversations, and it must be really boring if you don't care about the conversations. However, fortunately for those who don't, not all missions are like that. Most of them only have medium to short travel times, and it's almost always worth it.
The gameplay however is in the opposite camp, the ''Games are toys'' camp, along with most of the mainstream titles.
The gameplay can be likened to one of those toys toddlers play with. You know, the one with the different buttons that they press, and each button has a different sound? That's basicly it. The gameplay elements have no effect on eachother, at all. Sure, you can go hunt, but you won't get anything from it except a few minutes of hunting down some poor animal and maybe getting an in game/system wide achievement. You can sell the things you get from it, like pelts and claws, but money is utterly worthless even from the start. It is far too easy to acquire loads of money from hunting criminals (bounties) and animals, and the only thing you'll want to buy is medicine and tobacco for your dead eye and health. You won't really need to buy weapons since you'll find them during the storyline and out in the world, and the early rifles are alredy very effective against even late game enemies. And while we're on the topic of combat... The combat is far too easy, and the weapons are badly balanced. The auto aim is so incredibly effective that not even the best sharpshooter without auto aim could ever hope to match it in a short-medium range fight (long range is a completely different story however). It's not as much of a problem in singleplayer since you can turn it off, but it utterly dumbs down multiplayer PVP unless your ''enemy'' has the balls to slug it out at long range or agrees to an aim off fight, which is rare since most people in public free roam are immature idiots.
Directly related to money is the moral system, according to rockstar at least. But i've found that there's really no difference between being bad and good when it comes to money. I mean, sure, as a road agent, you can rob townsfolk, but you won't get that much for it... And besides, all your money concerns can easily be fixed with a little hunting of both the human and animal kind. That is if you find any use for significant amounts of money anyway. The only real thing it does is add to RDR's role play. You can have a Marston who's repented and changed his ways, or a Marston who is still reckless and indifferent about other people's well being.
Speaking of roleplay, RDR is one of those few games that truly understands what an RPG is. Some other games might shove in what they think is roleplaying elements, which often just turn out to be leveling systems or some kind of skill system, and call it a day. RDR on the other hand has no leveling system, no elves or any of the things that are far too often called role playing elements, but what it does have is some amazing roleplay. Marston's fate is sealed, you can't change it. You will get the same ending, no matter what you do(though what happens after the ending is up to you) and the game won't really change much depending on your choices (think Mass Effect), Marston won't sleep with hookers because he's married and there are some other limitations, but other than he's mostly yours.
This isn't something supported by the game's mechanics however. For an example, the side mission ''Jenny's Faith''. And don't worry, you get most of the stuff i'm about to say here in the first hour of running around in new austin if you don't focus on the main storyline missions too hard.
Jenny, who you first see on the train to Armadillo talking about religion with her father, a preacher, is a naive young woman struggling with her faith. If you ride west of Armadillo, you will find her lying sick in the wilderness. She has wandered out here to test her faith in god, but since she's from the city, she might have underestimated the wilderness, or she was alredy half insane before the sun started affecting her mind...
The objective of the side mission is to bring her some medicine. Now, if you're a bad guy, you could just shoot her and take all her money. This will make you fail the mission, but that's about it for game supported consequences, and a tiny standard honor drop for killing an innocent. Or you could bring her some medicine and get a little honor for it. However, she won't go back to town despite your attempts to convince her. When you're out of the cutscene, you can choose to leave her to her fate (which probably isn't any good, considering all the bandits and dangerous animals in the area) or you can hogtie her, put her on your horse and drop her off at the doctor's office in Armadillo. You won't get any honor points or anything for it though since the moral system is so simple. It's all about the role play on this one, and many like it. Marston can be a bad guy, a goody two shoes or somewhere in between.
Strong points
-Soundtrack
- Very well designed world
- Great story
- Great graphics
- Can be a great roleplaying experience if you're into that stuff
Weak points
- Money gets useless very quickly
- Weapon balancing is a little dodgy
- Moral system can feel tacked on
-The gameplay in general could have been so much better
Final score: 8/10
And this is where the game starts showing off it's multi personality disorder... The story is great as far as console games go, and seems to do it's best (and succeeds) to join the ''Games are art'' camp. It has a message, a commentary on human nature and it's quite well written. In fact, RDR's story, while it can't contend with the story of a good movie, is on par if not better than alot of the movies that have come out in the last year or two. And this is saying alot considering the other story offerings this console generation's games have. I mean, have you actually sat down and payed attention to Modern Warfare 2's story? It's absolute shit. And the first one, while better than the second, is barely on par with a popcorn action movie, and the same goes for a pretty big chunk of the games that have come out for consoles in the last year or two. The big publishers are like Hollywood, often turning down games with great stories and innovative gameplay in favor of safer, and blander, games. And, like for Hollywood, it's a strategy that is turning out to work in their favor. Just look at MW2's sales numbers.
But unlike alot of other games out there that only use the story to give you a reason to kill things and show off those big shiny explosions, RDR manages to make a very enjoyable mix of gameplay and story with varied missions that not only advance the story, but most also develop your understanding of the world, the people in it and the characters of the story. However, some people might find the travel times between objectives too big. Rockstar has, in my opinion, managed to keep the traveling from being too boring by having the characters you're traveling with converse with Marston, which often increases your understanding of the world and the characters themselves, but i have to admit, they can be really freaking long and uneventful even if you enjoy the conversations, and it must be really boring if you don't care about the conversations. However, fortunately for those who don't, not all missions are like that. Most of them only have medium to short travel times, and it's almost always worth it.
The gameplay however is in the opposite camp, the ''Games are toys'' camp, along with most of the mainstream titles.
The gameplay can be likened to one of those toys toddlers play with. You know, the one with the different buttons that they press, and each button has a different sound? That's basicly it. The gameplay elements have no effect on eachother, at all. Sure, you can go hunt, but you won't get anything from it except a few minutes of hunting down some poor animal and maybe getting an in game/system wide achievement. You can sell the things you get from it, like pelts and claws, but money is utterly worthless even from the start. It is far too easy to acquire loads of money from hunting criminals (bounties) and animals, and the only thing you'll want to buy is medicine and tobacco for your dead eye and health. You won't really need to buy weapons since you'll find them during the storyline and out in the world, and the early rifles are alredy very effective against even late game enemies. And while we're on the topic of combat... The combat is far too easy, and the weapons are badly balanced. The auto aim is so incredibly effective that not even the best sharpshooter without auto aim could ever hope to match it in a short-medium range fight (long range is a completely different story however). It's not as much of a problem in singleplayer since you can turn it off, but it utterly dumbs down multiplayer PVP unless your ''enemy'' has the balls to slug it out at long range or agrees to an aim off fight, which is rare since most people in public free roam are immature idiots.
Directly related to money is the moral system, according to rockstar at least. But i've found that there's really no difference between being bad and good when it comes to money. I mean, sure, as a road agent, you can rob townsfolk, but you won't get that much for it... And besides, all your money concerns can easily be fixed with a little hunting of both the human and animal kind. That is if you find any use for significant amounts of money anyway. The only real thing it does is add to RDR's role play. You can have a Marston who's repented and changed his ways, or a Marston who is still reckless and indifferent about other people's well being.
Speaking of roleplay, RDR is one of those few games that truly understands what an RPG is. Some other games might shove in what they think is roleplaying elements, which often just turn out to be leveling systems or some kind of skill system, and call it a day. RDR on the other hand has no leveling system, no elves or any of the things that are far too often called role playing elements, but what it does have is some amazing roleplay. Marston's fate is sealed, you can't change it. You will get the same ending, no matter what you do(though what happens after the ending is up to you) and the game won't really change much depending on your choices (think Mass Effect), Marston won't sleep with hookers because he's married and there are some other limitations, but other than he's mostly yours.
This isn't something supported by the game's mechanics however. For an example, the side mission ''Jenny's Faith''. And don't worry, you get most of the stuff i'm about to say here in the first hour of running around in new austin if you don't focus on the main storyline missions too hard.
Jenny, who you first see on the train to Armadillo talking about religion with her father, a preacher, is a naive young woman struggling with her faith. If you ride west of Armadillo, you will find her lying sick in the wilderness. She has wandered out here to test her faith in god, but since she's from the city, she might have underestimated the wilderness, or she was alredy half insane before the sun started affecting her mind...
The objective of the side mission is to bring her some medicine. Now, if you're a bad guy, you could just shoot her and take all her money. This will make you fail the mission, but that's about it for game supported consequences, and a tiny standard honor drop for killing an innocent. Or you could bring her some medicine and get a little honor for it. However, she won't go back to town despite your attempts to convince her. When you're out of the cutscene, you can choose to leave her to her fate (which probably isn't any good, considering all the bandits and dangerous animals in the area) or you can hogtie her, put her on your horse and drop her off at the doctor's office in Armadillo. You won't get any honor points or anything for it though since the moral system is so simple. It's all about the role play on this one, and many like it. Marston can be a bad guy, a goody two shoes or somewhere in between.
Strong points
-Soundtrack
- Very well designed world
- Great story
- Great graphics
- Can be a great roleplaying experience if you're into that stuff
Weak points
- Money gets useless very quickly
- Weapon balancing is a little dodgy
- Moral system can feel tacked on
-The gameplay in general could have been so much better
Final score: 8/10
[WIP]
Last edited by Thingy on 2010-08-02, 16:04; edited 9 times in total
Thingy- Moderator
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Re: Red Dead Redemption
by A-BIack_Man 2010-07-17, 16:42
I agree with everything you have so far, but you dont give any spoilers in the storyline do ya? im not so far in.
Also, they kinda do have a sick humor... just not in this game.
Also, they kinda do have a sick humor... just not in this game.
A-BIack_Man- Moderator
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Re: Red Dead Redemption
by Thingy 2010-07-17, 16:56
Nope, only some very minor ones maybe. And yeah, i've seen their humor in the GTA games, but there's little of that in this one. They're more serious with RDR, though there is still some humor left in it.
Thingy- Moderator
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Registration date : 2009-01-01
Re: Red Dead Redemption
by Thingy 2010-08-02, 16:05
Review's done. Going to start working on the fallout series soon.
Thingy- Moderator
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Re: Red Dead Redemption
by Shemuel 2010-08-02, 16:40
That is an epic review. You get a cookie. And some honor points.
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Re: Red Dead Redemption
by Thingy 2010-08-02, 21:44
Well... It's epic in lenght, but i feel that i could have said so much more about it... Oh well, guess i'll improve with experience.
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